Validation Rules

Place a request to join the Tattoo Artist/Apprentice Sections

Moderator: EvilJay

Are the validation rules fair?

Yes
50
62%
No
14
17%
I think there isn't enough steps
1
1%
I think there are too many steps
16
20%
 
Total votes: 81

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CxCx
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Post by CxCx » Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:39 am

Wolf, we keep a few pre-made/pre-sterilized needles in the back of our shop that my boss got from his friend (and tattoo studio owner steve) a few years ago (Steve sent them up because he knew my boss'd have a laugh based on the shit groupings on the rounds, and the fact that the mags were soldered on the bar UPSIDE DOWN!).

Anywho, the little indicator dots on them are ALL the same color as the ones you posted. I kind of assumed that it because their "expiration date" was in 2000, lol. Like I said, it was just an assumption.

If i found a company that made GOOD, well-grouped pre-made needles that, in fact, used quality pins, then i'd considered purchasing them. That being the case, even IF I'd purchase them, I'd still purchase them unsterilized, bag'em myself, and run'em myself.

We actually used to use dispossable tubes at our shop (which I'm happy to say we've gotten away from). One of my early apprentice "Shop Jobs" was opening all of the "pre-sterilized" tubes, re-bagging them, catagorizing/dating them, and autoclaving them. At the time, it seemed like extra work, i know now it just because my boss wanted to be SURE that they were sterilized and taken care of properly.

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BadWolf
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Post by BadWolf » Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:49 am

I actually found a company that has premades that are "alright"...not as good as homemades, bt ALRIGHT. And even though I trust the company, I still sterilize them myself, when I get them.
So, have you tried the needles I told you about before?

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CxCx
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Post by CxCx » Sat Sep 15, 2007 1:24 am

To be honest, I remember you posting about some great needles that you were digging, but I don't remember the company you told me about, lol, but, if they're pre-made, then the answer is a resounding "no", as we're still making all of our needles for the shop.

jinx13
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Post by jinx13 » Sat Sep 15, 2007 1:31 am

Not every sterilization package turns blue if that was your assertation. I have used several brands of dual peel bags as well as rolls where you cut it to length and tape the ends shut. I have seen the indicators turn from light blue or green to dark blue, black, dark brown, and purple. The color is not nearly as important as the fact that it turns color period. I personally hand solder my needles daily. I don't much like the idea of pre-mades as I cannot oversee production and in have no idea of quality control in the producion facility. I like to purpose build my clusters for the tattoo I will be using them on. And I agree plastic tubes just don't feel right to me.

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BadWolf
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Post by BadWolf » Sat Sep 15, 2007 1:32 am

These are just bulk pins. From very thin to really fucking big and blunt. The biggins drive in the color, if you run your machines right for them. As I said....you gottsa make it here sometime, and I will lay some on you, and get you drunk.

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BadWolf
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Post by BadWolf » Sat Sep 15, 2007 1:37 am

jinx13 wrote:Not every sterilization package turns blue if that was your assertation. I have used several brands of dual peel bags as well as rolls where you cut it to length and tape the ends shut. I have seen the indicators turn from light blue or green to dark blue, black, dark brown, and purple. The color is not nearly as important as the fact that it turns color period. I personally hand solder my needles daily. I don't much like the idea of pre-mades as I cannot oversee production and in have no idea of quality control in the producion facility. I like to purpose build my clusters for the tattoo I will be using them on. And I agree plastic tubes just don't feel right to me.
Did you look at the picture???
The label clearly says it will turn blue when properly sterilized.
I have never sterilized a package IN HOUSE that the indicator did not turn the color which it was supposed to. And I not only use the indicator on the package, bt I use autoclave tape on the packages, as well as a test strip in each load, and a spore test every two weeks. There should be no fluctuation. If the package says it should turn blue, and it doesn't. USE A DECENT PACKAGE. Or have the autoclave checked by a technician.

jinx13
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Post by jinx13 » Sat Sep 15, 2007 2:22 am

yeah, I looked at the picture, but the writing is pretty much impossible to read at that resolution. I was just saying that I've seen several colors on indicators other than blue. If it says it will turn blue then I'd like to see the origional color as well as the required shade of blue it is supposed to turn. I would venture to guess that the temp/pressure/time all affect the color as well as how old the package was to begin with. More importantly to check than the indicator turning color would be that the autoclave reaches the required temp and pressure and holds there for the required time.

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BadWolf
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Post by BadWolf » Sat Sep 15, 2007 2:46 am

The pic is large and easy to read....but in case you are using a weird browser, the label says:
When properly chemical vapor processed, color changes to blue.
THAT IS WHAT THE CLAIM IS. THEY made that claim...not me.
And yet every package I posted was brown, green or grey.
You can make whatever excuse you want...but the FACT is: They claim that it will be blue if it is sterile, and not ONE of them are blue. So if the company that sterilized them makes that claim, and cannot send me anything that meets up with that claim, WHAT IS YOUR FINAL ANALYSIS?
Every package I use meets the expectations they claim. Why do these packages NOT meet those claims?????
Are you into guessing? Or making excuses? Or do you want to be CERTAIN?
I want to be CERTAIN...so I sterilize them IN HOUSE.

jinx13
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Post by jinx13 » Sat Sep 15, 2007 3:16 am

So do I. I'm not trying to make excuses for anybody. Just posing possibilities. I'm not trying to start an argument with you. It reads like I've angered you in some way when I never questioned your practices. Just stating possibilities. I agree the only way you can be sure is to do it yourself from the soldering of loose needles to the cleaning and packaging, to the autoclaving and ultimately opening them up to do a tattoo.Try not to get so defensive. I know typing does'nt lend itself well to a persons intent when reading a comment, but look, I am agreeing with you.

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BadWolf
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Post by BadWolf » Sat Sep 15, 2007 3:24 am

OK...Sorry. I am simply saying that when the manufacturer claims that the circle will be blue once it is sterile, then it should be blue.
If they package one that is brown, or red, or green, or ocean marine magenta, that shows that that company is slacking. And if they are slacking on what they promise, NO EXCUSE is valid. NO possibility is acceptable. I know that I can make the indicator turn the color the package claims it should be, and all that involves is to sterilize it properly.
I understand your stance on the matter, and am simpy taking the stance I just described.

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arctiumlappa
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Post by arctiumlappa » Sat Sep 15, 2007 3:58 am

The companies we get our needles from also offer pre made unsterilized needles, We check them all with a magnifying glass and I have seen some that I have tossed but never upside down or anything harsh...these guys have great stuff.

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BadWolf
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Post by BadWolf » Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:00 am

So, who sterilizes them?
Can you tell me anything about the individual who does the sterilization or what standards s/he must adhere to?

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peat
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Post by peat » Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:22 pm

BadWolf wrote:
arctiumlappa wrote:Have something to say about what?. That everything I use comes from eikon or AJJ Fully sterilized and disposable?. COME ON!?.
Betty B
WHO sterilized them? When? Where? How was their equippment monitored? What standards are they REQUIRED to keep?WHO requires them to keep these standards, and what is the penalty if they fail to do so? Who was the equippment operator? What is his criminal background? How many times a day does he wash his hands? Tell me the companies dress code, and outline their policy for hiring people. What checks do they do?

As a professional, who is trusted to have the well being of their customer in mind at all times, DON'T YOU WANT TO KNOW THE ANSWER TO ALL THESE QUESTIONS????

waiting................................................
As this is my first post on this forum I quess I'm going to have a bad start.
The last time you saw a Doctor in a hospital open a pack are you sure it was him who cleaned, packed and sterilised the contents?
Why are we expected to be above hospital standards.
Personaly, I assemble, clean and sterilise the needles I need every day for the work I have to do that day.
I must admit that I do have the luxury of working by appointment only, so I know what I need each day.
Here in France there are no hygine laws, anyone can get thier hands on a starter kit and open a shop, and even here ther are still people tattooing in thier kitchens.
Some hospitals are still useing dry heat sterilisers, possibly because
autoclaves don't stop Crudzvelt-Jacobson*, either dry heat or extensive soaking can.
Well a bad start for someone who would like to be able to talk shop, that needs to be in the Tattooists section.
* Mad Cow Disease (BSE) in it's human form.

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BadWolf
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Post by BadWolf » Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:30 pm

The last time you saw a Doctor in a hospital open a pack are you sure it was him who cleaned, packed and sterilised the contents?
His pre-sterilized instruments were processed by people using AMA ADA or FDA regulated equippment and are held to certain standards by those agencies.
There are no such agencies who regulate the processing of tattoo equippment.
Does that answer the question?

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green_girl
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Post by green_girl » Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:10 pm

We should start a game.

I could have cut and pasted that by now. :lol:



We need some kind of imbibing game.
When someone asks something that has been answered many, many times online (especially when its in the same darn thread) we keep score.

I claim this one. At Hosefest, I will bring espresso butter toffee candies.

I'm sure I will have plenty more to lay claim to in the future!





For the love of god, stay a minute, draw up a chair, and have a look around!

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